Discipline

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Chris_N
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Discipline

Post by Chris_N » Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:57 am

Canadian wrote:Discipline (or should I say lack of it) is a problem the manager must solve now.
I am intrigued. My question to you Canadian, and every individual contributor out there is....if you were the Manager, how would you solve it? What would you actually DO?

Let's see how many answers we get.



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Steve
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Re: Discipline

Post by Steve » Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:37 am

I believe Lewis got two yellows yesterday.
Perhaps we should ask Chelsea how they got Diago Costa to clean up his act whilst still maintaining his superb competitiveness as a striker, who got a yellow yesterday, which was the first he has received since getting four in September !
Last edited by Steve on Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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MarkC
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Re: Discipline

Post by MarkC » Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:42 am

I would get a sports psychologist to work one-to-one with Callum, Brett and Lewis, focusing on controlling behaviour. The impact of working with a specialist fitness coach pre-season has been very significant. Let's embrace other aspects of sports science.

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Canadian
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Re: Discipline

Post by Canadian » Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:11 pm

My first step would be to quietly and privately sit down with a player who was receiving (in my opinion) too many petty and unnecessary yellow and red cards. I would do my absolute best to convince the player of his value and the importance to the team of him staying on the pitch. I do not pretend to be a motivational sports team coach but I am sure that many football managers have this ability. A private talk will work in some cases. If it does not it is the manager's job to assess the risk/reward factor before selecting the player.

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Chris_N
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Re: Discipline

Post by Chris_N » Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:56 pm

Some really good answers raised already.

Firstly, on the subject of Lewis, I didn't actually see the second bookable offence as my view was blocked by defending Chippenham players. Opinion on whether it should have been a second yellow was divided. One thing I do know is that Chippenham were for me, the worst team I've seen this season (or is that the best?) at appealing absolutely everything and getting in the ref's face. Many have said that the ref had a dreadful game but I didn't think he was nearly as bad as the refs we had at Frome and Leamington. Does the presence of an Observer (formely known as Assessor) put them off their natural game? Argument might have been that he wouldn't have booked Brett so early in the game for kicking the ball away had an Observer not been present.

Back to the Management of players. One question I would ask myself is....can they be replaced? If you look at the signings we've made since the start of the season the answer would have to be no, they can't, otherwise the Management would have done so. Will they change? Unlikely. What you see is what you get and you then have to factor that in if you are keeping them. If they weren't key players they would not be here now.

Think of key players in the past 25 years who had disciplinary records....Gary Williams got a few yellows, Parker, Drew, Frendo and to a lesser extent Charlie Williams. In their time, would we have been without any of them?? Players who have contributed to and shaped our history....and all bar Carl Drew in the HTFC Hall OF Fame.

One other observation/comment: In Lewis's case, 60-70% of cautions have been for foul tackles or pulling an opponent's shirt. So that says to me that this aspect of his game could be worked on.....to improve his tackling especially as he now plays in the back four rather than in midfield. With Callum and Brett, because reputation preceeds them just as it did with Parker, Drew and Frendo, referees appear tougher on them and are quick to punish as a means of control. How do you get someone to SHUT UP? It's like saying, how do you get someone to stop smoking, or drinking? If it's part of your make up then not easy to change. So as a Manager, you have choices.

Me? I'd keep them and manage round them. All great players in their own way, and Callum and Brett's blood is yellow and green. Most important to me is having adequate cover. At least this if you want to be a contender.


Oh and by the way........
Steve wrote:Perhaps we should ask Chelsea how they got Diego Costa to clean up his act whilst still maintaining his superb competitiveness as a striker, who got a yellow yesterday, which was the first he has received since getting four in September !
Simple. Get rid of Jose Mourinho :rotfl2:
Last edited by Chris_N on Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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RST
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Re: Discipline

Post by RST » Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:19 pm

The subject of player discipline arose in the Meet the Manager evening last Wednesday, so Mark's thoughts will appear once he has agreed those minutes.

Kicking the ball away is such a bonkers way of picking up a card at whatever point in the game it is (maybe just about understandable if right at the death and you're holding on and just trying to delay things). Let's be honest, if it's an opponent doing it at Top Field in the 1st minute we would be shouting at the ref demanding a yellow card.

Plenty of players play in masks protecting broken noses these days, how about we design one that stops the players talking back!

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Greenfinch
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Re: Discipline

Post by Greenfinch » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:38 pm

Asking The Donnellys to be less 'aggressive' is like asking a baby not to cry, its in their blood and they would not be the players they are without it.Also, some of the cards issued have been harsh.The referees must have a notion of these type of players and possibly are more alert, especially if an observer is present.Some of these big centre back 'thugs' are not punished for what they are doing, and brings out their frustration, if not addressed.Mark could sub a player already on a yellow, but it might upset the game plan, in Bretts case, sub him and who have you got to do the same job.Its a storm in a tea cup, and unfortunate circumstances has led to this. Hitchin is not a team full of red cards, it will pass.

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green man
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Re: Discipline

Post by green man » Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:52 pm

Amazing how the referees have not been mentioned. In my opinion the standard of refereeing has fallen to such an extent that they are incapable of controlling a match without showing cards at every opportunity. To my mind this has lead to a distortion of the rules of the game as perceived by these failing officials.

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Steve
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Re: Discipline

Post by Steve » Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:10 pm

I wonder how many yellow cards were shown for petulant back chat to officials having been spoken to which is something they have been told to punish this season rather than use a little "man management "?
One problem is that a lot of officials are fast tracked, and have never played the game at a competitive level, so don't understand the mentality of players and just go with the "laws" of the game rather than using a little common sense !
Their not as "savvy " as semi professional players and never will be!

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Chris_N
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Re: Discipline

Post by Chris_N » Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:56 pm

Very relevant point Steve. This appeared particularly evident when we were at Frome and the ref. booked 5 players from each side in what was a keenly contested, but not dirty game. We talked to the Observer (as he was very clear to put us right that he was not an Assessor!) and my perception is that he was perfectly happy for the ref to "work to a script" rather than express his own personality, initiative or man management skills.

One more booking on that day would have cost us £500 and Frome £1500 for reaching six bookings. Frome Chairman told us it would have been their second six of the season.
There are still some good referees at our level but they are largely the ones who are not career minded in the Referee stakes!

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