Discipline

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MarkC
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Re: Discipline

Post by MarkC » Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:12 pm

Funnily enough parts of this thread have felt like travelling back in time - the idea that some players have aggression in their blood, that we are who we are and the seeming rejection of the idea that people can be coached to manage or change their behaviour. I like forward to further removal of other new fangled ideas and the return of the magic sponge, the reintroduction of players eating steak before the game and the removal of footballs from training to make the players more hungry for it in matches. At the very least it would be fun to see Callum and Brett with curly perms.



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Chris_N
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Re: Discipline

Post by Chris_N » Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:47 am

So these two, probably two of the best British footballers ever to have played the game, could have been something other than what they were?? Can you imagine these two coping with all the "therapy" and brain management strategies of today? No, the managers who got the very best out of them (probably Busby and Venables) did so because they learned how to manage them to get the best out of them on the football field.

Yes you can coach and manage people in professional life to manage or change their behaviour. In many workplace scenarios this is necessary, but we are talking football here. Coach the behaviour vigorously and stifle the natural genius? Not for me....

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Out of interest Mark, what would you then do if you applied your approach of trying to coach Brett, Lewis and Callum to change or modify their behaviour and it didn't work?

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MarkC
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Re: Discipline

Post by MarkC » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:31 pm

Gosh, I so wish these two had been provided with better psychological support by their clubs. They would have had longer careers at the highest level and who knows what more they might have achieved. Even more importantly, they would have lived healthier and happier lives.

As a Spurs fan, Gazza is particularly close to my heart. And I blame Venables for not looking after him properly. He made those two awful tackles at the start of the 1991 Cup Final, sustaining the knee injury after which he was never really the same player, because he'd been allowed to get so pumped up.

Sports psychology enhances natural ability. That is seen across a wide range and levels of sport, including, thankfully, football.

And what would I do if my proposed approach didn't work? I'd seek advice from people with the knowledge, skills and experience to help me.

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pudgy
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Re: Discipline

Post by pudgy » Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:21 pm

I'm sure Brett, Callum and the rest of the card recipients are committed to the cause. Whenever I've watched the side they all seem to give 110%. After all, we're in a play-off spot currently, thanks to some fine performances.
Problems arise though when players leave the field early, either courtesy of a second yellow or a straight red. We hand the initiative to the opposition, and the remaining ten come under pressure. At Leamington, thanks to Brett's superb brace, it didn't matter that he left early, we hung on and gained an excellent 3 points. At Chippenham, we went a man down and narrowly lost. Would we have gained a point if we'd had 11 on the pitch for the ninety minutes? Maybe we would.
Resultant suspensions also cause problems. Brett's recent suspension meant we were denied his services at the key Trophy game at Chelmsford. Useful prize money available if we'd won, but in the event we failed to score, Chelmsford did, and we received £bugger-all.
Thirty years ago old farts like me could leer and grope female employees and call black guys gollywogs, with impunity. Not that I did. But those days are passed. To suggest players should be free to rampage gung-ho irrespective of the consequences simply because they're unable to control their temperament, or it's just part of their nature, is absurd. Players getting sent off and the resultant suspensions are likely costing us points and prize-money. Whether you control it via a quiet word from Mark, some anger management tips, a fine, or a kick up the back-side, it's something that needs to be tackled.

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MarkC
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Re: Discipline

Post by MarkC » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:41 pm

jacqueline.mcdonald wrote:Mark C, I have to say you have put a very good argument across in your last posting in particular and you've sort of half won me round. You clearly have a passion for sports psychology in general. Have you ever had any ambitions in that direction or field yourself personally? Just curious, that's all. Good posting Mark.
Like many I'm fascinated by coaches that find ways of getting the best from sportspeople - Bill Nicholson (of course), Shankly, Clough, Bobby Robson through to Wenger (though it pains me to say it), Eddie Howe and even Sam Allardyce, who pioneered use of sports science techniques in the Premier League when at Bolton. Eddie Jones is a great example in Rugby - ahead of the recent win over Australia he got his team to focus on trying to reach perfection by using the example of Nadia Comaneci's perfect 10 score at the 1976 Olympics.

A key development in modern sport has been around the positive role coaches / psychologists can play in supporting people to respond effectively to high adrenaline / stressful situations and to use controlled aggression. Anyway, I've said enough.

We've got an excellent young manager, who's developing a squad for long term success, with a fantastic focus on creativity. It was clear from the Meet the Manager evening that, as with everything, he's thinking through the discipline issue, weighing up options, and will quietly deal with this.

As ever, it's been fun to agree to disagree.

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Chris_N
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Re: Discipline

Post by Chris_N » Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:56 pm

Great postings by all and a great response Mark -my hat off to you!

What this thread has given is what this Forum should be about- a lively debate and yes, fun to agree to disagree.

Will be interesting to see how things pan out.

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Re: Discipline

Post by RST » Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:59 pm

Meet the Manager minutes, including Mark's thoughts on discipline, are now on the main site.

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MarkC
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Re: Discipline

Post by MarkC » Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:34 am

Disappointing postscript:

Just catching up with social media and have now seen the publicly available Tweet from Brett, featuring Brett, Callum and Lewis, which says:

"Naughty boys club training with the under 18's. Good session ... now off to speak to the shrink"

Amusing? Perhaps, it did make me smile. Disrespectful of the views of fans? On balance, probably yes. A further problem Mark and Roy could do without? Almost certainly so. It does suggest the players aren't taking the issue seriously.

On a brighter note, I did notice that Jonny Mac's Twitter photo has him in a Hitchin shirt.

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Chris_N
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Re: Discipline

Post by Chris_N » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:38 am

Amusing yes, it made me laugh. I hope they aren't training with the Under 18s, there's one in there that would have Callum believing he's a saint in comparison!
Going back to last night, a great win but if we'd been playing better teams than Cinderford with a weakened team? In all seriousness I would say to Callum and Lewis in particular, if we as a team are REALLY serious about contending, we need you to "reel it in" (just like Callum showed he could last season from 19th December to the end of the season). We can't afford for you to get to 15 bookings and then a three match ban! We need you ON THE PITCH doing what you do best - playing your best football.

(We still need that one point for survival, then we can concentrate on mid table solidarity!!).

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Re: Discipline

Post by Cat Daisy » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:16 am

MarkC wrote: "Naughty boys club training with the under 18's. Good session ... now off to speak to the shrink"
Made me laugh too, as did Chris's reference.

Probably best that Mark deals with things in the first instance but why should we rule out getting help from someone else? Have any other clubs at this level or the next done so? Doesn't necessarily mean we pay (or that we pay more than we did for David Bass to do the fitness work) if we can use contacts.

Depends how we want to approach all aspects of performance. It would be sensible to do something for the whole squad - how do we get that extra 5% that gives us an advantage over a season - rather than just construe it as punishment and putting Brett, Callum & Lewis on the naughty step.

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