FA Cup 1871/1872

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anthony.brown
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Re: FA Cup 1871/1872

Post by anthony.brown »

Thank you, Stewart. F.A.Tromans, who wrote about the Cricket Club, was a teacher of mine at Hitchin Boys G.S. It was said he was appointed because of his cricketing skills rather than his other undoubted attributes.
Your efforts, Stewart, have advanced our knowledge of the early years more quickly than anyone could have hoped. Soon we'll be able to give John Pardoe his due on our site as a founder of the club, rather than merely its first hon.sec. and give biographical details showing his starring role as a striker in the early days of the Forest/Wanderers.


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Re: FA Cup 1871/1872

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No worries Anthony, it's truly fascinating stuff! Totally agree on giving the history section of the website a full revamp once we've 100% ironed out all of the creases. Further good news... our man Phil on Twitter has spent this morning digging through his Charles Alcock Annual collection and filled a few more missing gaps:

OK - here are more details from the Alcock annuals:-
1868 - no colours given
1869 - Chocolate and magenta
1870 - Black and magenta
1871 - Black and magenta
1872 - Black and magenta

Ground given as:-
1868 - Dog Kennel Farm, Hitchin
1869 - Ditto
1870 - Ditto
1871 - The Cricket Ground, Hitchin
1872 - On the Bedford Road

The secretary was:-
1868 - Rev. J. Pardoe, Hitchin
1869 - Ditto
1870 - Ditto
1871 - Ditto
1872 - W. Tindall Lucas, Hitchin

Although the ground name changes, the directions (1 mile north etc) do not.


Matt has now contacted Hitchin Cricket Club who are fairly sure they know the exact location of the old Cricket Ground, as Hitchin Hill was a fairly wide area. They may therefore be able to shed some additional light on where our FA Cup match was played. Interesting to note the colours - further clarifying your initial thoughts that white and pink/magenta halves seems incorrect. Especially interested by the Chocolate and Magenta combo. :big_grin:

I'll keep you further updated - hope others are finding this all interesting too.
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Re: FA Cup 1871/1872

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Only just catching up on this thread, but it's fascinating. Well done everyone who has contributed to these investigations :clap: :clap: :clap:
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anthony.brown
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Re: FA Cup 1871/1872

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In 1871 the pitch markings were far more primitive than today's familiar lines. Pitches up to 200 yards long and 100 yards wide; tapes rather than crossbars, but goal dimensions were the same as today. No touchlines, just a flag in each corner. No 12 or 18 yard lines or halfway line. No penalty arc or penalty spot; ends changed after each goal and goalkeepers allowed to handle anywhere on the pitch...........Perhaps our historians can provide essays on this subject (and any other apt matters of interest) to augment our celebrations?
Last edited by anthony.brown on Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: FA Cup 1871/1872

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anthony.brown wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:26 pm In 1871 the pitch markings were far more primitive than today's familiar lines. Pitches up to 200 yards long and 100 yards wide; tapes rather than crossbars, but goal dimensions were the same as today. No touchlines, just a flag in each corner. No 12 or 18 yard lines or halfway line. No penalty arc or penalty spot. Goalkeepers allowed to handle anywhere on the pitch...........Perhaps our historians can provide essays on this subject (and any other apt matters of interest) to augment our celebrations?
If we went back to this we could save loads of cash on white liner and it'd save Steve ages marking the pitch!
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Re: FA Cup 1871/1872

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Fatal Diving Accident
Thomas Charles Mainwaring, Harringay, London, while diving from a bathing machine at Newgate Gap, Margate, received injuries to his spinal cord, from which he died the following day. At the inquest last evening a medical man stated that this was the third fatal case he had attended through diving into shallow water. A verdict of accidental death was returned.
Sheffield Evening Telegraph Friday 3rd July 1896

Fatal Accident Whilst Bathing
On Tuesday, an accident occurred to Mr Thomas Charles Mainwaring, of 144, Wightman Road, Harringay, London, whilst bathing at Newgate; and he received such injuries that he died on Wednesday. An inquest was held on the deceased on Thursday, before Mr George Foord-Kelcey, deputy-coroner, and a jury of whom Mr John T.Brighurst was foreman. Florence May Foster, the deceased' sister in law said he had been staying at Philetta Boarding House since a week last Saturday. He had been in the habit of bathing every other day. At about noon on Tuesday, he went for a bathe, and was brought to his lodgings at about 1.30, in an unconscious state. She and a trained nurse had charge of him up to the time of his death, on Wednesday. Between the accident and his death he regained consciousness and said he did a silly thing; he dived in too shallow water and pitched on his head on the bottom.
Samuel Charles Wickham, machine man, in the employ of Mr Pettman, said at about one on Tuesday, he saw the deceased lying in the water,close to the machines, and, thinking something was wrong, he went for assistance, and on returning, found that a gentleman had rescued him. He assisted the deceased into the machine and a doctor was sent for. Dr W.T.Rees said he attended the deceased on Tuesday evening. He examined him carefully, and found he was completely paralysed from the third rib downwards. He complained of pain in the lower part of the neck at the top of the spine. He asked the deceased if he had had a fit, and he replied that he had not, but that he dived from the third step of his machine into shallow water. He then came to the conclusion that he had injured the spinal cord, or, as was commonly said, he had broken his neck; and he expected a fatal result. Injury to the spinal cord was the cause of death, and resulted from diving on his head in shallow water. He had had to treat two or three fatal cases, caused in the same way, within a few years. The Deputy Coroner having summed up, the jury returned a verdict that the deceased died from injury to the spine, caused through misadventure, while bathing.
Canterbury Journal Saturday 11th July 1896
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anthony.brown
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Re: FA Cup 1871/1872

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ROYAL ENGINEERS v HITCHIN CLUB
In consequence of the continued illness of his Royal Highness the Prince of Wales, the tie for the Association Challenge Cup between the Royal Engineers and the Hitchin Club, arranged to be played at the Oval today (Thursday), is postponed.
The Sportsman Thursday 14th December 1871

When the tie was played on 10th January 1872, Hitchin played a much changed team from that which drew with Crystal Palace in the first round; the team without any of our Wanderers players. I blame the Prince of Wales for our poor showing in the second round. :big_grin:

The Team for this match:
F.H.Lucas Possibly Francis Henry Lucas (1854-1872) (see below)

William Hill (as Palace match)

H.Mainwaring Possibly Harry Edward Mainwaring (1849-1879) Stationer & bookseller, brother of Thomas Charles Mainwaring who played in the Palace game?

H.O.Crow Later played against Hitchin for St Albans Pilgrims. Two more games found for Mr Crow at St Albans Pilgrims: 6 Jan 1872 Ware 1 Pilgrims 0, and 21 Dec 1872 Ware 0 Pilgrims 1.
Possibly Rev Henry Oswald Crow born Gateshead 7 Apr 1850, died Worcestershire 30th October 1915. Matriculated 18 Oct 1870. At Keble College Oxford, BA 1873, MA 1878. Vicar of High Worsall, Yorkshire, 1879.

Ernest Woodgate (as Palace match)

T.McKenzie (An H.McKenzie played with H.O.Crow at St Albans Pilgrims. A relation of T.McKenzie?)

A.Bailey Possibly Alfred Bailey (b1855) In 1871, a printer's apprentice living in Bucklersbury, Hitchin.

A.Dawson Possibly Arthur William Dawson (1850-1928) In 1871, a student living in Bancroft, Hitchin.

THE LATE FRANCIS HENRY LUCAS
We are sure that the loss which Mr Francis Lucas and his family have sustained in the premature and somewhat sudden death of his son will call forth general sympathy. Mr Francis Henry Lucas, who died of diphtheria, at Geneva, on Sunday last, after a few days' illness, was a young man of great promise. He left Eton about three months since, and went to Geneva to study French and German with the Rev.H.Downton, under whose care he was when death occurred. He would have attained his eighteenth birthday to-day (Saturday).
Hertfordshire Express and General Advertiser Saturday 12th October 1872

I've found no absolute proof that Francis Henry Lucas was Hitchin FC's captain in the second round of the FA Cup; but his being the younger brother of William Tindall Lucas, who was (perhaps) unavailable on the day of the match, and finding no other Lucas that fits the initials, and a hunch, sways me to believe he played. Comments?
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Re: FA Cup 1871/1872

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On Temple Bar, in the City of London, there is a memorial thanking God for the Prince of Wales's recovery from typhoid, which illness had caused the postponement of our 1871/2 second round match with the Royal Engineers. With just 15 clubs, 3 scratching, our chances of progressing would have been much greater had the Prince not fallen ill at Sandringham! As it turned out, we had to play a scratch team, with our best players unavailable when the game was played after the Prince recovered. Such is life.
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Re: FA Cup 1871/1872

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I have updated some of the biographical details of the Hitchin players who appeared in the first FA Cup. Any corrections or comments welcome. Please.
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Re: FA Cup 1871/1872

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Did you know that.........

The Wanderers team which won the first FA Challenge Cup lined up in the final with four Harrovians, three Etonians, and one each from Blackheath, Charterhouse, Westminster and Lancing schools.
Charles William Alcock (Harrow)
Morton Peto Betts (Harrow)
Edward Ernest Bowen (Blackheath)
Alexander George Bonsor (Eton)
William Parry Crake (Harrow)
Thomas Charles Hooman (Charterhouse)
Edgar Lubbock (Eton)
Albert Childers Thompson (Eton)
Robert Walpole Sealy Vidal (Westminster)
Reginald de Courtenay Welch (Harrow)
Charles Henry Reynolds Wollaston (Lancing)

Other players in the earlier rounds:
Percy Temple Rivett-Carnac (Harrow)
Robert Erskine Wade Copland-Crawford (Harrow)
Edward Hay Mackenzie Elliot (Harrow)
H.Emanuel (??????????????) no one seems to be able to find details of this Wanderers' regular.
Gilbert George Kennedy (Harrow)
Thomas Henry William Pelham (Eton)
Charles William Stephenson (Westminster)
Henry Holmes Stewart (Repton)
Alfred Horace Thornton (Harrow)

Details taken from many sources, including the Harrow School Register of 1911, ancestry.com, the British Newspaper Archive etc. So there may/will be errors: which we have time to remedy before next year's anniversary of the first final.
Last edited by anthony.brown on Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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